Between Screenings
Between Screenings is a film podcast hosted by Neil Jeram-Croft and Tom Percival — two critics who live for cinema and the conversations it sparks.
Each episode dives into what’s new on screens big and small — from festival discoveries and arthouse standouts to the biggest blockbusters and hidden gems. Expect honest reviews, spirited debates, insider perspectives from the festival circuit, and the kind of film chat that usually happens in the lobby, between screenings.
New episodes every fortnight. Join us, and keep the conversation going between screenings.
Between Screenings
Mother Mary, Sick Day Movies, will The Mandalorian and Grogu perform
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Join Neil Jeram-Croft and Tom Percival as they discuss recent movies, their experiences with cinema and streaming, and upcoming film releases including Star Wars, Toy Story 5, and the new James Cameron concert film. They also delve into the state of the franchise and box office predictions.
Hello and welcome back to Between Screenings. We're going to be talking all things film again. It's been a couple of weeks since we last spoke to you all, but I'm joined again by Tom Percival. How are you, Tom?
SPEAKER_03I'm not very well this week, Neil, because I've come down with some weird spring cold. I can't, I don't know where it's come from, but I've I'm coughing, I'm spluttering, I'm waking up in the night, unable to breathe through my nose. And it means that I've not really had much of a chance to go to the cinema over the last week and a half because I've been battling this bug. Rubbish.
SPEAKER_01Rubbish. Well, since we last spoke, I've moved upstairs into this fancy new office. So uh this was our spare room, and we've now I've now put a nice fancy sofa bed in, and I've got my lovely shelves with Buzz Lightyear and Woody sat up there. So this will be in my background from now on. Two celebrities on the podcast straight away.
SPEAKER_03Woody and Buzz.
SPEAKER_01Well, if if uh if you know anything about me, you know my favourite films, Toy Story, so it kind of felt the these are these are Maisie's old Toy Story toys. I've got an original Buzz Lightyear downstairs. Um, but these are Maisie's old Toy Story toys that she just didn't play with anymore. So she was like, you can have them in your office. I was like, okay, cool.
SPEAKER_03Oh. That's very nice. But of course, I presume she's not allowed to touch your original buzz. I imagine that he's under lock and cake.
SPEAKER_01No one's allowed to touch the original buzz. No one's allowed to touch the original buzz. Also, yeah, sorry to hear you've got a bit of a cold. I've managed to escape that. I'm I'm now recovered from running 42.2k, though, or 26.2 miles, depending on what whether you're metric or imperial. I've now fully recovered from that ordeal.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and but you didn't quite manage to make the time you were hoping for, did you?
SPEAKER_01I went off too fast.
SPEAKER_03So a rather pitiful three hours and five minutes, was it for you or marathons?
SPEAKER_01Oh, apologies. Apologies. Um but I think running a PB half marathon in the first half probably doesn't help you for the second half unless you've been doing an outrageous amount of training.
SPEAKER_03No, I can't imagine it did you did you put you in any good stead for the rest of the race?
SPEAKER_01No, I was in a lot of pain for the last sort of 7k because I got a horrendous stitch. I think my stomach just said, What are you doing trying to force all these disgusting gels down you? I'm not having any of it. So yeah, it was it was it was horrendous. But I while I was running it, I was like, nope, not doing this again, never doing this again. Um and I'm already thinking, yeah, I'll do it again.
SPEAKER_03I mean, you know, Cynthia Revell just w ran the London Marathon. Uh Daddy Pig just won the London Marathon. No, don't Daddy Pig. Sorry. Just uh Daddy Pig, yeah, he he ran the London London Marathon. You know, you you could meet some celebs, you could hobnob, you could get some A-listers for the Manchester Film Festival next year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, I mean, I've I've I've entered the ballot for London, so we'll see. We'll see. But let's not turn this into a running podcast because you're I mean you were back running before your um before my called.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I'm going to be from next week.
SPEAKER_01So not been out to the cinema, but have you been watching some movies at home, Tom?
SPEAKER_03I have. Um, I have some go-tos when I'm poorly set, and I like to indulge in what I would call duvet movies. I think we spoke about this with our colleague at the Fourth Festival Jules, funnily enough.
SPEAKER_00I did.
SPEAKER_03So I have been watching, I've watched Ghostbusters, which is one of my favourite movies. Uh, I know, backwards and forwards. Because I think you need something that isn't gonna challenge you in any way. Uh, because on on my first day being Pauly, I made a huge mistake and I put on Ken Russell's The Devils. Yeah. Which is a movie that I've I've never watched, but I've wanted to watch for years because Mark Commode has recommended it. Um, and I started it and I got about 10 minutes in, and I was just like, what are you doing? Turned it off, watched Forrest Gump instead. Forrest Gump is a I'm not feeling very well movie. You want something you can sort of doze off to a little bit, you know, and clock back in and you've not really missed anything.
SPEAKER_01I remember being ill uh a year or so ago and thinking Saltburn would be a good uh I'm not feeling very well movie. It wasn't just to I'd I'm not sure it's a good movie anyway. Um but I know it divides people, but I sort of didn't enjoy it. I don't I mean I was I wasn't feeling very well, but watching um slurping of bathwater and things when you're not feeling well, all the edgelordy sort of stuff that goes on in it, I just shock shocking for shocking's sake without actually saying anything, is what I would say about that.
SPEAKER_03I disagree, but I would agree with you that it is not a movie to watch while you're ill. I have actually just remembered that I did watch one new movie since we last spoke. Uh I watched the Disney Plus streaming uh movie. Mike Knit. Mike and Knit and Knit and Alice, uh, which is a time travel caper movie, which I would describe as perfectly pleasant to watch while you've got a fever. Not one they're gonna put on the poster, I don't think.
SPEAKER_01I don't think they're gonna add that to the poster, no. Well, I have actually been to see a film at the cinema. I've not seen a whole heap because I I'll be honest, it's been a bit dire um since the the big hitters of uh sort of Mario and the drama and Project Tale Mary, which is still running. There's there's not been a whole heap out in cinemas. I I don't really have much of a desire to see Michael. I'll probably watch it when it comes to streaming, but it's not one I was racing to the cinema for. Um I think if it had come out during like half time, if it'd been if we'd managed to get to the cinema during the Easter holidays, maybe Magic Faraway tree I would have gone see with the girls, but I think my kids are maybe a little bit too old for it now and they just weren't interested. Um so yeah, not really not really been seen much, but I did go to the cinema this morning with Carl and Elizabeth, who does PR for the festival, and we all went to see Mother Mary. So Anne Hathaway and Michaela Cole um and Hunter Schaefer very briefly. None of us liked it. Go on, Neil, tell us why. What was what was the issue with the film? I mean, Carl's response was well, that was a stinker. Um course it it there's a good that I was watching it thinking this could be good. Okay, it starts with some sort of quite funky, sort of really atmospheric shots of Anne Hathaway as this sort of vibey pop star with a weird halo doing a singing, and it's quite cool. Um and then it turns into the wordiest play you've ever been to. You basically just get uh Michaela Cole speaking to Anne Hathaway incessantly in metaphor, uh in obscure what sort of language for an hour. Right, just literally her talking non-stop for basically an hour, and then it kind of turns into a weird ghost story. Um, it's a lot of style over substance. So I I would have liked a lot more of the Anne Hathaway as a pop star and the sort of the negative sides of fame and idolization. Uh there's quite a good conversation she has with FKA Twiggs, where FKA Twiggs is playing another I'm assuming it was she was maybe another pop star or someone that joins her Entourage anyway. Um and she's kind of saying, How do you deal with you turn up at these events? And there's what, 1800 people all directing all of their attention and all of their love and all of their energy straight at you. Like, what do you do with that? Like that was an interesting moment, and I think that would have been it would have been more interesting exploring that. Instead, it kind of just explores this semi-lesbian relationship she had with Michaela Cole, who's making her a new dress, um, and then it turns into a bit of a ghost story, and there's a lot of metaphor, and it's it looks pretty, but it was uh pretty dull.
SPEAKER_03It's it's funny, isn't it? Because it's David Lowry, who directed it, and he's made four movies that I've seen of what he's made, I've seen four of his movies. Um two of them I think are exceptional. Uh The Old Man and the Gun, which was Robert Redford's last movie, if I'm remembering correctly, and is absolutely amazing. One of those films you come out and you go, Oh my god, I could go back in and watch that immediately. Uh The Green Knight, which is really weird, but really, really engaging because it's got Dev Patel and sort of like this fantasy, like um borderline experimental at times movie. But then two absolute stinkers, uh, a ghost story, um, with is it Casey Affleck? I think I could be misremembering.
SPEAKER_01I guess I think it is a ghost story, is a Casey Affleck.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, uh Casey Affleck, which I was so excited for because I love ghosts, and it then was much like you're saying there, just a little bit like, what are we doing here? This isn't just this just isn't working for me. And finally, Peach Dragon, 20 s the 2016 remake, uh, which I thought, to quote Carl, was a steamer. I didn't mind Peach Dragon. No, I I'll be honest, those like I I I want to call them like the Wilderness Years Disney movies, like Peach Dragon, Bed Knob, and Broomsticks and all that. They've never on it, and I did not enjoy that remake. I just thought it was like an even worse version of a movie I already don't really like.
SPEAKER_01Well, he also did Peter Pan and Wendy as well, which was kind of a Jesus Christ on Peter Pan. So that was also him.
SPEAKER_03Did he? No, I've not seen that one, thankfully.
SPEAKER_01I don't um It's Peter Pan with a bit more Wendy.
SPEAKER_03Wait, have I seen that? You know what? If if I have it, hasn't stayed with me. Well, I'm sorry, I don't think I saw that one.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, Mother Mary. And also it was there's the first I was really worried it was just gonna be a single-room drama because they were literally just in this old sort of barn conversion fashion studio for the first hour in the dark. Um so I was slightly worried we were just gonna end up with just Anne Hathaway and Michaela Cole talking for two hours about nothing. Um it's been there's been some pretty good, I think it's pretty mixed the reviews on it, though. I think it is quite a polarising film. There's some quite positive reviews out there, and then there's some not so good uh reviews out there.
SPEAKER_02So looking at 71% on Rotten Tomatoes, uh 58% on Metacritic, which is always a bit worse than Rotten Tomatoes.
SPEAKER_01Three ones sound all right. Three on letterboxed.
SPEAKER_03Really? I mean, it sounds like something the type of thing I'd like. So maybe I'll give it a go. I quite like this description from Brian uh Talarico at Rogerebook.com who said it's the exorcist, it owes as much to the Exorcist as it does to Lady Gaga, which is something I'd quite I I like the sound of that, but I think the pop stuff is a real red herring in it.
SPEAKER_01It's such a small it the those are the those bits of the film I uh the probably the bits of the film I enjoyed the most, but they're not. They're a very small element of the film. Like a very small element of the film.
SPEAKER_03What's then? Well, it's about at least the box office is about to heat up though, Neil, because we are heading into the summer silly season. So, you know, before you know it, we'll be watching Spider-Man, The Avengers, Supergirl, and the film that I'm most excited for this year, I'm going on record, uh, The Devil Wears Prada 2. Okay. Which is I thought you were gonna say something else then. No, I cannot wait for The Devil Wears Prada 2. Uh the press screening for this was on Tuesday night, and I was too poorly to attend. Oh no. Uh but everyone who's seen it has said it is really funny, more than lives up to the original. Like there is an actual reason for all these characters to get back together. But I do think that I would have warned in to anyone who's considering going to see it. Part of the reason why journalists love it so much, because it is entirely about the decline in power of journalism since the original was made, and the rise of influencer culture and um things that journalists don't like, basically. So, and it's apparently like it's a sterling defense of why good journalism is necessary in the face of this slightly wishy-washy influencer culture. So I'm very curious to see it because obviously, as a journalist, I have a vested interest in journalism continuing to exist. And I do wonder how much of it is just going to be a power fantasy for journalists that, you know, an editor can come in and save the day, you know, throw their coat at someone and uh just uh get people reading a magazine again, which I don't think is going to happen.
SPEAKER_01No, sadly not. I mean, I'm going to see it on Monday, so sort of Anne Hathaway double bill for me this week. Um, I'm going on Monday with Amy and the girls, and Amy is very excited. She like, I think Devil Wears Prada is her favourite film of all time. Um, the girls, I think, are gonna need to, I think we probably are gonna end up re-watching Devil Wears Prada over the weekend because um just to prep for it because the girls can't really remember it. But I will say, I'm I'm I'm I I think it'll be fun. I think one of the positive things about it is Anne Hathaway's uh slightly pathetic boyfriend from the first film isn't making a comeback. Or as everyone knows him, Vince from Entourage. Uh he was such an awful character in the first film. I just remember thinking, who is this guy?
SPEAKER_03So I I re-watched it literally Wednesday, uh, sorry, yesterday. Uh I was like, everyone always says this character's awful. Is he as bad as I remember? And then you watch and you're like, no, he's worse. Like his girlfriend gets a job and he's and she's sort of, you know, semi-uninterested in it, and she's using it to climb the ladder, and he's like, Yeah, you know, whatever. And then she starts to show an interest in her work and make friends outside of his their circle. And he's like, No, stop. What are you doing? Like, you used to think this was stupid, and this is beneath you. And it's like, well, it's not, and the film presents a really good argument for why, even if you don't think something is serious, it should be taken seriously. Like, I love that scene when um Mel Streep basically destroys the Andy character for wearing a blue jumper, and she's like, Oh, you and you picked that lumpy thing out of the closet this morning. You thought you were making that decision. But what you don't realize is she lists all of these uh designers, and she's like, that jumper was picked for you by the people in this room, and it just shuts Andy up, and I absolutely love it because I work in a niche area of journalism where we're like, yes, the silly things we talk about day to day do matter. Um, so yeah, I hope the girls like it on a rewatch because I'm I'm with your lovely lady wife. I think it's a remarkable film. It's probably in my top 10 films, uh, The Devil Wears Prada. I love it that much.
SPEAKER_01Nice. Uh and if you don't fancy Devil Wears Prada this weekend, there are a few other releases coming out. There's one I would highlight, which is I've seen All I Need to See, which is a fantastic drama that we played at the festival this year, Bulldogger releasing. It's only on it's playing less than 25 screens, so you are gonna have to seek it out. But if it is playing with the near you, I would suggest getting along to it because it is a it is a great film. Um and then, yeah, coming up, we've got some mad films coming up soon. I mean, obviously, we're both excited for Mortal Kombat 2.
SPEAKER_03Uh, I am so excited for Mortal Kombat 2. I am seeing it next week, and I am genuinely on the edge of my seat. Um because that first film is terrible, but also wildly entertaining at the same time at the same time.
SPEAKER_01Have you seen the Street Fighter trailer?
SPEAKER_03With Blanca. I think I have, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it is very contrasting to the 90s Street Fighter movie, which kind of tried to make them all real. Uh, it is just leaning into the fact this is a computer, a comic-y computer game, and is just looks absolutely mad.
SPEAKER_03I can't look like listen, genuinely, I love it when they go all in on the computer game side of stuff. I know these movies are never going to be high art, but I absolutely love it when they're like, yeah, we're making something stupid, so we're like, we might as well be as stupid as possible. Um the Street Fighter movie, as well, the original, uh, does contain my favorite line, one of my favorite movie lines of all time, when uh Chun Li confronts um the main baddie, whose name I'm completely blanking on now. M. Bison. M. Bison, that's the one. And basically she's like, you know, you killed my father and destroyed my village. And he goes, like, for the the day bison came to your village was the worst day of your life. But for me, for me, it was Tuesday. And I absolutely love that line and think about it far too often.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Well, I I think we have to wait till quite a bit later in the year for that. Um, but like you say, we've got we're we're we're sort of entering a the season where we are gonna get a lot more uh films coming out. I am also in two weeks' time heading off to Cannes, so I get to see the OTER-driven lineup that they've uh put together this year. Uh so there's no big hitters, there's no Mission Impossibles, there's gonna be no Tom Cruise there. I don't I was I was slightly hoping we were gonna get Digger, but sadly not, because I know Cruz loves the Crozette. Yeah, sadly no digger, sadly no disclosure day. Sort of really big hitters people were hoping for aren't gonna be there. We have got um the new James Gray film, though, which uh Paper Tiger, which is gonna be in competition. So I am very much looking forward to that. You know, we've got new films from Koriada, from Alma Dova, and so on and so on. So there's gonna be a lot to watch there. I think the films I'm most excited for in the Uncertain Regards section, which uh if people don't know is sort of for first, second time directors. So there's uh Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma looks really good, Club Kid looks really good. What's really sad is there is basically one British film, I think, uh in the entire lineup. Really? Sort of semi-British film in the entire lineup. Yeah, I can't remember what film it is. It might not even be in the lineup, actually technically in the Cannes lineup, it might be in Critics Week or Um Director's Fortnite, which are these sidebars that are pop popped up and run alongside Cannes and are kind of still part of the programme, but they're they're sort of separate to the main Cannes programme. But there's gonna be lots of over there. I'm there for a week this year, so um yeah, it's gonna be nice to catch up with people who I've not seen in a while. Um and yeah, go and watch some movies. Uh her private hell, actually, I'm also looking forward to. Nicholas Winding Reffin's not done anything in quite a while, and I'm a big fan of uh of his work, so yeah, looking forward to that as well. And also, as we discussed previously, John Travolta's directorial debut is obviously gonna be my.
SPEAKER_03I cannot wait for John Travolta's directorial debut. And there's also a film um starring Rami Malik of all people that I'm borderline interested in. Uh The Man I Love, a musical fantasy set in the eight during the eight crisis in the eighties. And I'm really interested in that because it sounds so much like almost like if you could didn't have the rights to Bohemian Rap to the Queen, you'd make this version of that movie. And I'm really curious like why he's gone back to that well, basic, uh, basically. Maybe he's like, oh, I want to I won an award last time I did something similar to this. Maybe it'll put me back in people's good graces.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, possibly. Um it'll be interesting. It's it would be interesting because obviously Bohemian Rhapsody is sort of derided uh by the critics, but embraced wholeheartedly by audiences and also by awards voters. So it actually did pretty well at at the awards, I believe, Bohemian Rhapsody, because Rami Malik won Best Actor for it. Well, yeah, I just which is baffling.
SPEAKER_03I still don't understand why, because it's it's a perfectly fine performance, but then like two years later, I think Taryn Edgerton gave a much better version of that performance in when he did in the Elton John Biopek and they gave him absolutely diddly squat uh when he was actually Demi Malik who mimed his way through things.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it also picked up a best um I think it also picked up a um best picture nom. Yeah, it did. And it famously won best film editing, and people used a scene from it, which was horrific to show why why it was badly edited, which I remember being quite funny.
SPEAKER_03It's a guy sitting down on a bench, isn't it? And it's like there's about eight different cuts in that one in that two-minute uh section.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, where they're just having lunch together. Um, so it'll be interesting to see if if if Michael goes on and sort of does the same sort of thing. I think Michael is quite likely to be the first um biopic to top a billion. I think it's it's on its way there. It had an incredibly strong opening. Like I say, I've not seen it yet, but I've said from from what I've heard from people I know who've seen it, the performances are amazing. So it'll be interesting to see if there's any sort of best actor or best supporting actor noms um for it. Although one of my friends who saw it, who is a huge Michael Jackson fan and was so excited for it, just came out a bit sad because Really? Well, she was just like, it's just someone doing an impersonation of Michael Jackson. They're not Michael Jackson, they're not as good as Michael Jackson. No one could ever be as amazing as him. So I'm just a bit upset that I didn't get to see Michael Jackson.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, I'm I I I consider. Going to um had I not been ill this weekend, I probably would have gone to see it because I am very curious about like these polarized reactions to it. Because my critic friends are like, it's the worst thing you've ever seen. Um Manchester Film Festival jury member Clarice Lockery, an independent film critic, I think, was particularly excoriating uh in her review. She was like just soulless, completely terrible. Like, you don't go see this, basically. But people at work have been like have been quite upbeat about it. You know, when they're not reviewing it, they've been like, it's absolutely fine. The performances are actually really good. There's just a massive elephant in the room that they're sort of not able to engage with for legal reasons that sort of waters it down. But I've already heard rumours of a sat like more films set within the Michael Jackson universe, as it was, because this is like up until bad, I think, is the album that it's sort of like.
SPEAKER_01It's up until the bad performance at Wembley Stadium. So it does very similar to Bohemian Rhapsody, from what I've heard, is that it basically ends with him doing a whole set on stage at Wembley.
SPEAKER_03Right, okay.
SPEAKER_01So you're basically just watching a Michael Jackson tribute that act at that point, but yeah, but I think that's I think the critics, you know, critics definitely look at these sorts of films in a different way to audience, I think. And I think there's a big disconnect in this type of film because I think the audience just go, they love Michael Jackson, they just want to watch something fun about Michael Jackson. You look at Deliver Me From Nowhere, the um Bruce Springsteen one, that bombed because no one cares about that album. Like people like Bruce Springsteen's songs, but they want to go and watch something where he's singing uh Dancing in the Dark and Born to Run and all the bangers. They don't want to watch something about an obscure album him writing an obscure album that no one really that hasn't really got any of his biggest hits on. Um the Bob Dylan one was great, but again, it's it was early Bob Dylan is the stuff everyone loves of Bob Dylan, but it still didn't do, I don't think it completely dominated the box office. I think, yeah, people when when people go and see, especially for someone like Michael Jackson, a lot of his fans aren't gonna want to re-be revisiting the the child sexual abuse allegations. And a lot of people I'm just relaying some facts, I'm not taking a side in this at all. I will keep my personal opinions to myself. But a lot of people have also pointed out he did stand trial. He he was tried by a jury of his peers and found not guilty. Now, whether you agree with that decision that the jury made or not, he actually during his lifetime did go stand trial in front of a jury of his peers and was found not guilty. So, you know, how how much do you push into that for a film where the fans of the the real Michael Jackson fans, if you speak to real Michael Jackson fans or you see the discourse from them online, they're having none of it. He definitely didn't do anything wrong in their eyes at all. So to do a film where you allude to him actually doing stuff, I don't think it's not gonna go down well with the fans. They're gonna then boycott it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I suppose that's ultimately it, though, isn't it? Like critics always go into these things in, you know, it with a certain this is a piece of art, and we're gonna look at it like as a piece of art. Whereas fans of Michael Jackson are going into this to see a product. You know, they want to see someone who looks and sounds like Michael Jackson sing Michael Jackson songs and dance like Michael Jackson. And that's probably the reason why, you know, it's got 37 a 37% Rotten Tomato score from critics and something in the 90s, I think. I think it's like on 92% from audiences.
SPEAKER_0197 from audience.
SPEAKER_03Oh, 97. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, which is And that's how 10,000 people have reviewed it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. It's you are right. It's I mean, I I do think a lot of critics were aware that this is the this film was essentially review-proof. No one was going to give a shit, basically.
SPEAKER_01Um there was a you know there was a bizarrely similar thing with uh The Greatest Showman, where I remember reading a lot of reviews about The Greatest Showman, which were basically slagging it off for not being very historically accurate, because it is about P. T. Barnum, uh a real-life historical character, and his real life story is is not really anything like the Greatest Showman. It takes little bits of what he did. Like he did meet, he did travel Europe with a little um person and the that met the Queen, and they did like other things. So there are little bits of truth in it, but a lot of it was painting him out to be this really nice guy who was the sort of saviour of the underdogs. Um, whereas so a lot of people took, a lot of the critics sort of took it to task for that. Whereas audiences don't care. No, your average man in the streets never heard of Petey Barnum. They weren't going to the greatest showman even knowing it was a biopic. They were going to the greatest showman going, that was fun.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I like Hugh Jackman, I'm, and I like Zach Efron. I'm going to go see this movie. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. I mean, you're right. Um, you know, as I say, I think some films, like some things are just review, like completely reviewproof. Like this this Beatle Biopic that they're working on. That, you know, people are like, what is it? Is it four movies? Four movies released almost simultaneously? Yeah. I mean, I think we've spoken about it before, but it will do well. I think at least one of those four movies will do well. Like, you know, because people like the Beatles. Um, you know, I think that will get people through the front door through the door of the cinema. I don't know if it will get them to see all three, because I believe is it you're seeing the same things but different perspectives on the same things, and you need to watch all four to understand all of what's happening.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And they're going to be released like a week apart or a month apart or something.
SPEAKER_03I'm very curious how they're going to do the press screening for that. Whether it will just be some marathon week like week long, like one, one, one, one, or whether it'll just be one in one long day of watch them all four of them back to back.
SPEAKER_01I reserve judgment on on that one. But yeah, I maybe I'll get to. I think if the weather wasn't so flipping lovely at the moment, I might have gone see Michael. But the weather's been lovely this week and uh I've had a fair bit on, so I've not had a chance to the the chance to go to the cinema and watch something was not enticing enough to to drag me from my garden and from the other stuff I had to do.
SPEAKER_03But clearly other people didn't feel that way if Michael's doing as well as uh as you say.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it's gonna I think you'll I think it'll pr be a strong hold at the box office as well. Because I think you're gonna get, I think again with a film like that, and again with a film like Bohemian Rapstay, I think the fans turn up for it multiple times. So I think you're gonna get a lot of repeat watching from people. So people who love Michael Jackson are gonna go and see it two or three times. Um because they want to see it in a cinema with that it's a concert film, essentially. You want to see it in the cinema with the sound, with everything. Talking of concert films, did you know that James Cameron has directed a concert movie? Yeah, Billy Eilish's concert movie. I had no idea that was James Cameron.
SPEAKER_03Do you know how I know this? Because someone at work came up to the desk the other day and was like, James Cameron was lovely. And I was like, excuse me, what have you interviewed James Cameron for? Like, is it is is he already like marketing Avatar 17 or whatever on? And they were like, no, he's uh directed the Billy Irelish movie. Uh and they'd they'd been over to speak to Billy and uh and James. Apparently he was lovely. Mad.
SPEAKER_01Apparently a lot of it was filmed at her Manchester gig. Oh, was it? Apparently so. Excellent. Like it when things are filmed in Manchester. I'm guessing because the co-op being such a new venue was really easy to for logistically for for filming.
SPEAKER_03I've got to imagine that, yeah. Because the um my sister goes there all the time and she says there's always posters up saying you're being filmed at this gig, basically. Uh I wonder if she's mates with Harry. Harry Styles is a huge um investor, I think, in it, isn't it? Yeah, he is. Yeah. So I wonder if she's mates with Harry. And she was like, he was like a favor.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Who knows? Uh right, what else is there to talk about? We could keep it short this uh this time, couldn't we, Tom?
SPEAKER_03We've done can. Uh we've done what we're excited about this uh uh coming in the next coming weeks. Oh, you know what we should very proudly touch on uh the fact that there is a Star Wars movie out in less than a month now, and no one seems to give a shit.
SPEAKER_01No, so I I told you I watched Rogue One with Maisie, so she's completed a Star Wars set. Uh yeah, she's not bothered, uh obviously, because she's does she's not watched The Mandalorian, like she's not got into the wider Star Wars universe. So it's a Star Wars universe movie, but it's not a Star Wars movie, I think is what you would say.
SPEAKER_03I think, but while the bollocks, like, you know, it's it's a Star Wars movie. Like, I know from the trailer, and I have friends with enough insufferable Star Wars people who tell me that there are characters from the cartoons in the comics in it that we should be excited about. And I'm just like, I don't care. And I I genuinely am a little worried about it because this is the first time we're having a Star Wars movie since 2019. There has been a near seven-year break from Star Wars movies in the cinema. And I just, outside of my friends who love Star Wars, and I mean, you know, will text me saying, oh my god, have you seen the new Darthmall cartoon? It's incredible. It might be, I'm never going to watch it. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, I just don't know anyone who's excited or cares, which I just think bodes really, really badly for it. Um, and like you say, I think if you've got to watch, have watched three seasons of a TV show to understand it, even and I really like the first two seasons of Mandalorian. I think the third season's terrible, but like, whatever. Um, I think that's a huge roadblock for like new fans like your girls, who in theory they've just watched all of Star Wars, they should be like, oh, I'd like to see what more there is. I just don't think that's there. I don't think people are particularly thrilled or like, you know, chomping at the bit for this.
SPEAKER_01No, I think one of the other big problems with it is that is it is itself in a way. Like the Mandalorian raised the production values of TV shows so high that that each one of them's like a a movie. Like it's not, it's not gonna it always used to be with a TV, uh a movie based on a TV series, whether it was the X-Files movie or whatever it might have been back in like the 90s and the 80s and so on, the movie had the budget. You suddenly had, instead of an hour-long episode of The X-Files, which was a relatively small budget, you suddenly had a like huge budget to make an hour and a half long, two-hour long story. So it was always something a bit special. Whereas it's just gonna look like an episode of The Mandalorian.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. No, it is, yeah. And like when you watch, I don't know if you've seen any of the trailers, I'm just like, that just looks like another episode of The Mandalorian. Like, it looks good, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't look like, oh, this is a this is something that needs to be seen in the cinema. Like, I can't wait to see this in cinema. More and more and I keep saying to ourselves, like, that'll be on Disney Plus soon. Yeah. Like, you know, for stuff that a few years ago we'd have been absolutely, you know, opening weekend there in the cinema to see. Now we're just like, oh, that'll be on Disney Plus, oh, that'll be on HBL Max soon. And it's it's worrying because we love like the experience of going to the cinema with just rising costs and everything pushes more and more just to wait for streamer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think you know, people have upgraded their TVs and their their systems so that they can watch these things at home. And it's you know, getting a 55-inch TV is not actually that expensive these days. So, you know, for most people that's way bigger than you need in most lounges. So yeah, I think it's it's it'll be an interesting one. Like every Star Wars film since episode one, I have been to the cinema with one of my best friends from uni. Like we went to all of the uh episode one, two, and three while we were at uni. And we went to all we went to Rogue One, we went to all of the most recent trilogy with mixed feelings for those. Solo, I think, was the only one we didn't go to the cinema uh together to watch because we both we both skipped that one in the cinema. Win, I'm not gonna be I'm not gonna be texting him going, Oh, new Star Wars, we're gonna get to the cinema. You can are we gonna go on for like not it's just not an event movie. No. No, I don't think Starfighter's gonna be either.
SPEAKER_03No, me either. And I think that they were they were hoping that Ryan Gosling would be the thing that got people excited for that. And I'm just I just I it sounds bad. I just don't care. I don't like and I am not the type of person who's who should be saying that. Like I do watch all the like, not even just for work, I stick I keep myself like I do watch all the live-action Star Wars shows, and for the most part, I thought they were fine, you know, it's fine too enjoyable. Like, and the fact is we've got a movie coming out that a few even like a few years ago, I would have been emailing the PR, like saying, hi, can I just chat when's Mandalorian Mandalorian and Grogu screen um start screening? Can I make sure that I'm already on the short list for you know uh for the the the movie? I I was I just I I will probably mess it when I see a friend say they've got invited, I might say, Who's sorting the tickets? Can you send me the number? Do you know what I mean? It's not some and if they say no, I'll be like, oh well. Do you know what I mean? Like it doesn't feel like something I need anymore. Yeah, I'm none too thrilled about.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think they're gonna struggle now that any Star Wars movie that comes out is not gonna be a star uh a Star Wars movie in the sense that it's not gonna be about the Skywalkers. There is gonna be no Skywalker now in a Star Wars movie. Like I think they did Luke Dirty in the the most recent trilogy. I think I think I think the way they decided to deal with his character was was probably not the best thing for the long-term future of the franchise. Um the way they just killed off Han Solo, you know, it just all these things that made Star Wars movies Star Wars movies are now gone. So there is no like why you wouldn't have thought about this when you were making The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi and so on, and giving Luke a legacy, whether it be he's had children and there then carry on his legacy, or something else. I think that you know Luke and uh Han and Leia's son turning to the dark side was kind of cool. Um, but we maybe we needed maybe he just needed to do episodes one, two, and three again, but with uh Luke trying to stop Ben turning to the dark side.
SPEAKER_03Well, I can't believe that Steven Soderberg pitched. Have you heard this?
SPEAKER_01Yes. A Kylo Ren.
SPEAKER_03A new Kylo Wren trilogy. A new Kylo Wren trilogy, and he was pitched it. Even though he's dead, he was like, we can bring him back. It's fucking Star Wars.
SPEAKER_01Like we can bring back the Well, you brought back the Emperor, you can do what the fuck you want.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you can you can bring back whoever you want. Um Kathleen Kennedy loved the script, and then everyone was like, nah, we're not gonna do this. And then like Adam Driver was in. Like I I know that it's all hypothetical, but like that's the type of thing you need. You need one of those characters. Um, you know, as much as like I am I'm not on the hating Ray train, people did not enjoy that character, like for whatever reason. And I don't think I think you're gonna struggle to build a fr uh for the franchise around her moving forward.
SPEAKER_01But you need characters to then pass the baton over to the new characters that people can get excited about, who can then pass the baton over to another set of new characters. But you've got to have that through line, I think, to get people excited. And they've just lost it. And like you said, the only thing they've got left now is Ray to carry it through, who is coming back for a set of films. And maybe there are some people who these were their Star Wars films that they grew up with who will get excited and be on board with that.
SPEAKER_03I hope so. Like, I I am I like the character of Ray. I just don't know. I just think that like, yeah.
SPEAKER_01She was a bit too good with a lightsaber, and Kyla Wren should have basically murdered her in the first one.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, but you know, I like that Kyla Wren was so shit. I quite enjoyed that he'd been being a terrible Jedi. Um but yeah, no, I just think it's interesting that like as I say, the first one.
SPEAKER_01Go on, let's let's let we can because we can we can come back to this in a future app. What's your bottom of this prediction? Opening weekend. I'm going under 100 million.
SPEAKER_03Do you think under a hundred mil? I think under a hundred. I think for opening weekend. Obviously, we're talking US. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, I want to check something. What did Solo?
SPEAKER_01Checking what the lowest current Star Wars opening weekend is.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I am basically. What did Solo a Star Wars?
SPEAKER_01It would definitely have been solo.
SPEAKER_02Open weekend.
SPEAKER_03So solo Star Wars, uh, solo a Star Wars story, opening weekend. It grossed 84 million over its three-day opening weekend.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03Um and they were expecting 130 to 150 million debut. So I'm gonna put, I'm gonna say that they are likely projecting 150 mil for Mando. I think 130, 150. I think it opens to 110. I think it underperforms compared to what they want, but I do think it breaks 100. I don't know. Do you think would you get what how low would you go? Do you think 95? Do you think 80?
SPEAKER_01Well, apparently, so I'm just having a look now what the tracking is. Apparently it's tracking at 90 million plus debut.
SPEAKER_03It's not good.
SPEAKER_01Well, they're now saying between 90 and 100 million. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go for it and say it's gonna come out uh with 85. 85 mil. Okay.
SPEAKER_03And then not have very long legs. I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna say I'm gonna be the positive one and say that stick to my 110. It will defy the box office expectation. Uh, but I do agree that it has terrible legs and falls off pretty quickly. Because again, people will just be like, when's it coming to uh Disney Plus? I'll wait till it's on Disney Plus.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think ultimately Disney probably don't care that much. Like if it I think it'll do, I think it'll probably get somewhere near the 400 to 500 million mark worldwide. And it's the budget's only 160 million for it. And really, what do Disney want from it? They want, yeah, box on a success, make its money back uh theatrically would be great. But what are they gonna be selling at Christmas?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They're gonna be selling a whole heap of Grogu toys.
SPEAKER_03They are indeed, and I've no doubt that they will, I will cynically say now, like, oh, who's still buying Grogu Grogu's hat? And my me, my house is full of Grogu tat, so I've no doubt I'll be buying the Grogu in his Christmas hat that they're probably planning on releasing, or the shoulder buddy Grogu, or you know, the Lego sat. So more full meg. Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think that'll do us then. Lovely stuff. We've managed to waffle on for 43 minutes, considering between the two of us, we've seen one film in the cinema in the last two weeks.
SPEAKER_03We've seen we've seen one film in the last two weeks. Um we touched on Cannes very briefly, and then we spoke about Star Wars for 20 solid minutes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's what people tune in for, I imagine.
SPEAKER_03It's the sort of I was guessing what Star Wars, how Star Wars will perform.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, let's see, let's see if let's see if our box office, who's closest in the box office predict predictions. I'll tell you what we'll do well at the box office, and I am excited for, and that's Toy Story 5.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah, Toy Story 5 will do well. You're right.
SPEAKER_01It looked like a much better premise than Toy Story 4.
SPEAKER_03Yes. It does seem like, and I I'm enjoying all the things that I've had, because I I did the junket for Toy Story 4, and everyone was telling me, oh no, no, no, we we definitely this wasn't like some budge job we threw together. It was. Uh it was. Whereas Toy Story 5 genuinely seems like a good idea for a Toy Story movie.
SPEAKER_01So there was lots I disliked about Toy Story 4, especially the way they treated Buzz Lightyear. Like they they they absolutely for some reason turned him into a thicko who could only do what his buttons told him to do, which had never been a thing before, but suddenly he couldn't make a decision on his own without pressing his buttons. It was just nonsense.
SPEAKER_03He's barely he's barely in the movie, is he? Really?
SPEAKER_01It's more Woody and Bo. The best thing to come out of Toy Story 4 was Forky, obviously. And if you've seen the Disney Plus series Forky Asks a Question, uh it is brilliant. If you've not seen it If you've not seen it, watch it. It's they're like 10 minute apps and they are hilarious.
SPEAKER_03I will have to add it to my watch list. They all go watch. Watch it after this for the question.
SPEAKER_01Go watch Fork he asks a question just watch one or two of them. They're great. Right. Shall we call it nail? On Forky Asks a Question, we will rest for the next two weeks. Right. Hopefully we'll have both been to the Cinema. Well, we'll have both seen Devil Wears Prada 2 by the time we speak next, at least. We know that for definite. Excellent. If if mine and Tom's take on Devil Wears Prada 2 isn't enough to get you to come back to listen next time, I don't know what is. So for that banging content, make sure you subscribe and follow us and do all that stuff. And we will see you next time between screenings.
SPEAKER_02Bye.